Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog 3

New interview translation

There's quite a juicy interview with Naka about the development of various early Sonic games here: http://shmuplations.com/sonic/

About Yuji Naka "confirming" Jackson's involvement

The article currently says: "In 2022, Naka confirmed that Jackson had been involved and said that the development team had visited Jackson's home at Neverland Ranch. He expressed surprise that Sega did not use Jackson's music in Sonic Origins.", with Eurogamer as the source. This is factually wrong, as the cited Eurogamer article misinterprets a tweet by Naka claiming MJ music was used in the "SEGA Official" TikTok account, taking it as confirmation that MJ worked in Sonic 3 itself.

Naka further clarified he meant the TikTok account in a later tweet he made in response to this and other similar articles that surfaced during the time. Some sites corrected themselves or otherwise covered this response as well. When trying to correct this, I got reverted twice by different users. I know making the same edit two times is close to warring, but considering it's literally false information, I decided to proceed anyway.

In any case, the statement that "Naka confirmed Jackson had been involved" needs to be either reworded or removed.

I do take issue with how more active/experienced users tend to handle these situations; I was reverted with extremely vague reasoning, essentially forcing me into the talk page and having to explain myself two times (three if counting the self-explanatory edit itself) before being offered any substantial counter-argument. I can only assume these users do not consider this to be false or misleading information, but I'm having trouble seeing why as I genuinely believe it's extremely self-evident. A simple explanation would be nice. Gabo 200 (talk) 21:05, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Part of the reason you were reverted was because your added wording was sloppy and unencyclopedic, like you were writing a verbal argument against someone or something. Im sorry you "took issue" with getting reverted, but that's how Wikipedia works - edits get undone and you have to hash it out on the talk page. You're going to have a hard time here if you're going to get offended every time it happens. It's a very basic core part of the website.

We can see what others say and come to a decision from that. My two cents: I can see softening the wording some to make it sound less certain, but I'm still struggling with some of your counterpoint here. Even after Naka's correction, the whole conversation doesn't really make any sense unless Jackson was involved. Why would Naka even make his revised comment unless Jackson was involved? Sergecross73 msg me 00:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

This Game Informer article mentions what I'm trying to get at here: "Funny enough, Sega referencing Michael itself is even more surprising than Naka's perceived confirmation and only further hammers home that, yes, Jackson lent a hand in Sonic 3's music." Sergecross73 msg me 14:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Examining the sources, I think Gabo has a reasonable point. Several sources that reported this later updated their articles to say that Naka had, in fact, not exactly confirmed Jackson's involvement. See [1], [2],

Per WP:STICKTOTHESOURCE, I have amended the article to remove the claim that Naka confirmed anything. Instead, we should just report the other stuff Naka said: that the team visited Jackson's home, and that Naka was surprised that the music had changed in Sonic Origins. Popcornfud (talk) 15:40, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Gabo 200, without discussion of the content itself on my part, I wanted to address this concern of yours: I was reverted with extremely vague reasoning, essentially forcing me into the talk page and having to explain myself two times (three if counting the self-explanatory edit itself) before being offered any substantial counter-argument. Using the talk page is a part of the collegial atmosphere of Wikipedia. Whether you consider your changes self-evident or not, if you’re reverted it should be considered controversial as at least someone has disagreed with your change, and it’s worth discussing your proposed changes at talk to establish a consensus. This isn’t “forcing”, it’s the natural order of things - and as the old expression goes, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Red Phoenix ^talk 18:08, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I feel like there's probably more that could be pulled from that source, but regardless, my main objection was these prose additions, so as long as that's gone I'm fine. Sergecross73 msg me 19:48, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, the prose additions were convoluted and in some cases not grammatically correct ("the alleged Jackson's music"). Popcornfud (talk) 01:49, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Origins' replacement tracks allegedly being "new" remixes made by Jun Senoue

Discussion moved to Talk:Sonic_Origins#Origins'_replacement_tracks_allegedly_being_"new"_remixes_made_by_Jun_Senoue

Amy Rose in Sonic 3 and Knuckles

I added a footnote about Amy Rose now being a playable character in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Knuckles for Sonic Origins. Has anyone a better way of conveying this on the article? Nebulous2357 (talk) 04:23, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps as a sentence in the last paragraph of the Ports section which focuses exclusively on the Origins port? Red Phoenix ^talk 12:09, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I believe that's how I've seen other editors do it on the other Origins game articles. Sergecross73 msg me 14:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I've merged this into the article with sources. I removed the footnote around Hyper Tails's name or whatever as that seems like trivia to me. Popcornfud (talk) 14:40, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

New Jackson source

• https://nintendoeverything.com/sonic-3-michael-jackson-involvement/

Not entirely sure what to make of this. The plus side is that there's a Sega staffer directly stating Jackson worked on the soundtrack. But they make it sound like all of his work was scrapped, and that wouldn't really explain the soundtrack changes in Origins (unless that's covered outside of what Nintendo Everything transcribed.) Sergecross73 msg me 00:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

From a quick glance, Hector's just telling the story he's always told (and is already in the article)—that Jackson worked on the soundtrack but his contributions were removed. Looks like this might give us a bit more to work with, though. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 01:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I don't really see this as changing the story much as we know it. It seems there's always been confusion among the people involved here about exactly what happened and how much of the MJ material remained in the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hector never even played the finished version of Sonic 3 or had any idea which pieces of music were composed by different people. I once worked with a business director of an AAA game studio who asked me what "RPG" stood for. Popcornfud (talk) 15:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I've always thought that was the case. He implies that Drossin made a lot of music but Drossin has listened to the soundtrack and only pointed out the S&K title screen theme, new Knuckles' theme, and their related jingles as his. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 16:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, honestly, after re-reading the section, I forgot how much we already knew about all of this by now. That guy getting all fired up about that Yuki Naka quote last month was making me think we had less "confirmed" about the MJ saga than we really do. I think its one of those situations where I forgot where we're at as far as "what's confirmed by reliable sources in the Wikipedia sense" and "what's confirmed by the fanbase on the fansites". I was thinking there was more of a discrepancy than there really was. This can be disregarded. Sergecross73 msg me 16:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)